With his sons John and Mark, he returned to our country to remember the calamitous post-Chornobyl years and see what can be done next. He told KW correspondent about his life that intervened with Ukraine so closely
 |
| PHÎÒÎ: Y. Kostyukov |
KW: Rev. Jones, how did you become a minister?
G.J.: When in school, I dreamt of a medical career. And when I graduated from school there was no money to go to university. The military offered some incentive – if you go to the military for four years, the military would pay for four years of medical school. So I joined the military with the hope of becoming a medical technician, which would give me some foundation for medical field. After four years in the military I could apply and the military would pay for my medical school. It was a great plan. But during the 12 weeks of basic training when they always asking you questions, somehow it became obvious to them that I would make a good selection for the intelligence. I had clear background, no criminal record, no trouble with the law.
KW: Analytical mind, attention to detail?
G.J.: Probably. So they asked me if this medical field was not available would I consider a space operations analytical unit. And like an idiot I said: well, sure. They made me sign papers and someone told me that the opportunity to become a doctor was flying away. So after some special training I served in various places. I even was stationed in Turkey where we kept eye on the launches of Soviet missiles in Kapustin Yar. When I got out of the military it was my desire to go to university and become a minister because the military experience has changed my perspective on life. I saw people having so many needs than needed to be answered. I met a beautiful woman, we got married and went to Oklahoma where I studied for 6 years.
KW: Six years of seminary?
G.J.: It was not a seminary. One of my undergraduate degrees was in police science.
KW: Police science? Seriously?
G.J.: And the second degree was in criminal justice. It was needed for my ministry because many people I was working with the people that had difficulties with the law, so I needed to know as much about criminal justice system as possible. Many ministers have no idea about the legal process, which creates a lot of trouble. When I finished that program, I had to go to the graduate level of seminary but I had to feed my family, so I established a private detective agency. Somehow it worked out, and I became a part-time minister. In four years, my daughter was born and we moved back to North Carolina where we established a church and stayed in that capacity for four years. Then we moved to Virginia and were in the process of starting another church. But again, I had to make a living and had to become a professional boy scout of America. I was very involved in boy scouting as a youth and eventually became an Eagle Scout. Finally, in four years I have established a church in South Virginia.
KW: You established a whole new church from scratch?
G.J.: Well, there was a small group of people, about 20 to 25. In eight and a half years their number grew to 250, sometimes the attendance was at three hundred. As the church was growing, I did a lot of traveling and we eventually went international. We focused primarily on humanitarian aid for children. We identified situations like Chernobyl, in particular that project Children of Chernobyl in Cuba. That’s how we got to Cuba, by the way.
KW: This international ministry you were running... Was it a charity organization?
G.J.: In the United States we have different kind of ministries. We were a not-for-profit organization, which meant we could not receive donations from the government, only from private funds and individuals. We identified a local need and organized efforts to meet that need. We would bring in medicines, syringes, vitamins, other supplies. We approached church leaders and got instruction materials like Bibles.
Anyway. In Cuba they used a facility that had been used by Soviet officials outside Havana and a hospital. The whole compound was surrounded by fence. The Cuban government invited terminally ill children with parents from Ukraine and they were subjected to experimental medicine. Everyone, even the youngest knew what was going on. It was no secret, everybody knew that. Cuba wouldn’t probably admit it but that’s what Ukrainians told me. Even if there is tiny chance there it was still better than no chance at all back in Ukraine. Every week a transport plane came from Ukraine bringing in new patients and sometimes taking away dead bodies or those who gave up.
Our ministry supplied an array of different things. Everything from medicines, vitamins, syringes. On one occasion we even brought in components for a children playground. Which made Cuban authorities very disappointed, by the way. We tried to not to leave the supplies at the customs but delivered then straight to the hospital compound, because we were not totally sure that supplies would not end up in Cuban military hospitals.
 |
| PHÎÒÎ: Y. Kostyukov |
KW: When you first came to Ukraine, what were your stereotypes of the Soviet?
G.J.: I have had built-in prejudices because of my military background. I thought all Russians, the Soviet were our enemies and they couldn’t be trusted. I thought everybody in the Socialist system was working to see us Americans go down. But when I arrived I saw that the traditional customs were very much the same in your country. It was quite a surprise. I was very excited to know that Ukrainians were glad to meet Americans and were really hungry to learn the truth about our country. During my first visits, people asked me about the Bible. But the second most asked for was the book titled 1984 by George Orwell because it was forbidden in the Soviet Union, of course. I remember on one trip I brought in like fifteen copies of that book.
After some interaction I saw that the problem was not with Soviet people but with the Soviet authorities, who where afraid of us and tried to control the people. First of all, in a lot of ways Ukrainians were like American people. The most important thing was that the body language was the same. In some countries it is very different – in Asia, Central Africa, Latin America. I mean, not only in tribal communities – the differences can be quite significant even in Hispanic communities. Here it was the same. And, as soon as we were speaking the same languages plus had interpretation it was so easy for us to find ways to cooperate rather than finding differences. We could focus on the things that we had in common.
KW: How did those missions go? Did you have any opposition on the behalf of the authorities?
G.J.: The first missions went like a military operation. We had a strategy and a rock star with us. It was a keyboardist and singer from the Carlos Santana’s band, Leon Patillo, a crystal voice. The concerts consisted of two parts. There was philosophical discussion of religious principals and then some music. We had a permission from the KGB to do this, foreign ministry approvals for cultural exchange, all kinds of papers approved. The attendance was 20, sometimes 25 thousand people. After the concerts John Guest, now Pastor of Christ Church in Pennsylvania, would step out and held philosophical discussions about God: what is worth believing, who do we believe and so on. How the world came to be – was it just an accident or was it an intelligent design behind all of this. And finally – if you want to know God, we’ll prey for you, we’ll show you the way, we’ll give the books and materials. Authorities just didn’t know what to do about this. But as I said, our papers and permissions were totally alright. We even had KGB agents with us. This lasted for two years, and then after the break-up of the Soviet Union in December 1991, there was confusion, no one knew what to do. But we kept coming in bringing Bibles, medicines, children books, holding information gatherings. Gradually, we began working through the local pastors at local churches that we can trust.
KW: And then came a long break in your relationship with Ukraine…
G.J.: What began to happen were other projects in Cuba, China and Central Africa, which took all of our time and recourses. Many other missions came to Ukraine, there was so much assistance and the need was not that urgent any more. In addition, the whole idea of humanitarian assistance, like bringing stuff in bags became completely complicated. Ukraine passed new laws that medicines must be properly labelled and certified in Ukraine, had to pass the healthcare ministry, must be six month to a year prior to expiration day etc. This completely destroyed humanitarian assistance efforts as our deliveries were relatively small and paperwork eventually cost more than the medicines. So it is better to bring the money and buy medicines here and than give it – and that’s what we started doing. We began working with local churches that we can trust, creating centres for distribution – from printed materials to financial assistance. We are trying to focus now on rehabilitation centres for alcoholics, drug addicts and ex convicts.
KW: You started coming here 20 years ago. Now after the 14-year break, how in your opinion Ukrainians have changed?
G.J.: Earlier, there was am extraordinary amount of curiosity to us Americans among Ukrainians. Now it’s not quite the same as people have much greater access to information. But people in more remote areas remain pretty much the same, the same amount of curiosity. What is immediately noticeable, is that not nearly as many people are walking the streets or take public transport. It is all one continuous traffic jam, which certainly was not the case 20 years. Not so many people had cars.
KW: What was your message to your fellow Americans when you came back?
G.J.: That Ukrainians love their children just like we do. And that was very difficult for some people to accept. I was often told: they are trying to cheat you to sneak up on us to and catch us off guard. But then again, both our governments had done a lot to set our peoples against each other.
KW: Now you are back to the Chornobyl zone. Do you feel any kind of nostalgia?
G.J.: Absolutely. Frankly, I do not know why I needed to come here again. I am asking myself the same question. Am I trying to find new way to help the situation. Or maybe I am coming here to remember, to remind myself of my own mortality. I think we must move forward. We are given the ability to remember but we cannot change the past.
The Chornobyl disaster was such powerful a commentary on Soviet incompetence and how man’s achievements can turn and bite him in the ass. (Laughs) When you read official historical accounts now you cannot but ask yourself: how people can be so stupid to allow something like that to happen? And then Soviet Union collapsed and Ukraine was left to its own devices. Like, Chornobyl is your problem. It was a great lesson that needs to be to be learned by the man.
KW: Considering the previous experience of the mankind, do you believe the lesson have been learned after all?
G.J.: Of course not. It has just given us more facts. But if we really learned these lessons, things must be done a great deal differently concerning nuclear energy. Iran and north Korea are playing these games with their nuclear programs… Russia and the USA are in talks to reduce the number of warheads. But look what just two warheads did to Japan. Our country is quite unique in the sense that we have never had war on our land. Americans died in the wars, including the two world wars overseas, we lost our loved ones. But by and large we did not know the pain and suffering that almost any other nation has experienced. As citizens of different countries we can share our likenesses and differences to make our lives richer. That’s the one things I love about international partnerships. You see, for me America is like loaf of Swiss cheese with lots of holes in it. Productive relationships with other nations helps to fill those voids.
KW: One of such for forms of cooperation is the scouting movement…
G.J.: It has been almost forty since I am with boy scouts. I am a national representative of the Boy Scouts of America. I am an official chaplain for scouts and I got almost every award that a Scout was ever given. So I know what I am talking about.
Two thirds of members of US congress have a background in scouting. All of the Apollo astronauts were Eagle Scouts [the highest rank attainable in the US Boy Scouting program]. Scouting is about character development, citizenship, loyalty, being useful and help others. A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.
KW: Impressive. What’s in it for Ukraine?
G.J.: Ukraine is showing considerable interest in the scouting movement. The country is struggling for recognition and one of the most noticeable scout organizations here is Plast. They have long history, but as they apply for recognition by the World Scout Organization, they don’t get it. Unfortunately. Because they are too nationalistic, they do not include Muslims or black kids. There are some inherent flaws about Plast that make their methodology unacceptable, which they somehow do not understand. Things seem to change as they now have a new leader, a Ukrainian, who grew up in America and now came back to live here and is trying to do something. Two years ago Ukraine as a country was recognized as being able to put together a good scouting program and join the World Association of the Scouting Movement. But Plast is not - before they fix their methods. Many people believe that Plast just cannot change at all.
KW: Recently, the Boy Scouts of America has been criticized for not allowing the participation of atheists, agnostics, or homosexuals.
G.J.: I teach an international certification course for scout ministers. I had Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus coming to my classes and even though I am a conservative evangelical, I have no problem when working with priests from other religions. Because if we agree that scouting principles are good for Muslims, Jews of Hindus, we can forget about other differences. We don’t tell the kids what to believe: go to your own church, find your own way. But you have to believe in God and demonstrate commitment to our fundamental principles. As for homosexuality, the Boy Scouts of America do not accept homosexuals as members or as leaders, whether in volunteer or professional capacities. It required its members, youth and adult, to take the Scout Oath that they would be "morally straight." We just don’t accept their way of life.
Printable version
