KW: The Netherlands was against giving Kyiv the NATO MAP (membership action plan). Why? What factors were decisive here?
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| PHÎÒÎ: A. GUDZENKO |
P.J.W.: I am a bit surprised by how this question was formulated. Obviously, the Netherlands has always supported Ukraine’s membership in NATO provided there is a thorough process of preparation for that. We certainly have not changed our position in this, and I hope that also Ukraine has not changed its position. We have observed of late that President Yanukovych decided to eliminate a number of advisory bodies and commissions, amongst them some that were active in the sphere of security. But, we notice at the same time that there is still willingness to continue dealing with NATO in a very pragmatic way. This seems logical. I think at the moment it is a bit premature to talk about when Ukraine will become a member of the Alliance. Annual national plans are a useful way of structuring mutual commitments to move towards enhanced cooperation. We hope the Ukrainian government will allocate the necessary funds for this cooperation and that the necessary legislation will be put in place. As you may recall, Ukrainian participation in the recurring Sea Breeze joint naval exercise is back on the agenda. But such participation, which we would welcome, requires legislation and funding. If this is forthcoming, I do not foresee any major difficulties for further cooperation.
KW: In 2006, The Netherlands and Ukraine signed a joint-action program for 2009. What are the results of this program? Is another one underway?
P.J.W.: That is an important question. I recently went to The Hague for talks with representatives of ministries and authorities in the Netherlands; also the Ukrainian Ambassador to the Netherlands, my esteemed colleague Vasyl Korzachenko, participated in this seminar. We discussed ongoing and future bilateral cooperation with Ukraine. It turned out that most of the participants were extremely satisfied with what has been achieved on the government-to-government level, in support of business, etc. It was felt that we should continue along this line. The Ukrainian side has submitted a draft for a new joint action programme, and the Dutch side also has ideas on what to include. We are currently working on a document that will hopefully soon be ready to be signed and that will help structure our cooperation for the next two years.
KW: While a new EU Visa Code took effect on April 5, it does not seem to improve life for Ukrainians. Am I right?
P.J.W.: There is a lot of discussion in the media about the new Visa Code, but this piece of treaty legislation has little to do specifically with Ukraine. Already years ago, the Schengen countries decided to start harmonizing their visa procedures. Subsequently, it was decided to hand over the leading role in this issue to the European Commission, which from that point onwards has been working towards one system that would apply to all Schengen countries. I strongly believe this uniform system represents a progress. For example, the number of categories of visa applicants has been reduced and the overall procedure has been streamlined. If you go, for example, to Italy and then to Denmark the next month, you will not have to fill out two different forms with different underlying conditions, but only one standardized EU form. We hope that the Ukrainian authorities will do their part so that the Schengen visa obligation eventually can be abolished. It should be realized that a visa is not simply a sticker in a passport; behind it lies a whole set of issues related to the need of countering illegal immigration, such as reliable protection of state borders, having the required readmission agreements in place, the issuance of travel documents that cannot be easily falsified, etc.. We know that the Ukrainian authorities are working on these complicated, yet critical issues and from what we hear from the European Union delegation, there is considerable progress in the right direction.
KW: What is your opinion on Ukraine’s readiness to host Euro-2012?
P.J.W.: I don’t think that my Embassy has the capacity to make an independent detailed assessment of the situation. However, we attentively listen to what Mr. Platini of the UEFA has to say when he encourages the Ukrainian authorities to do what is still needed. We are confident that Ukraine is capable of achieving a lot in short time. But, having said that, continuous efforts are required to meet the deadlines. On a bilateral level, I should add that we are very much interested in how our businesses can be involved to assist in the process of preparation for the football championship. We have already had one trade mission titled Taskforce Euro 2012, in which mainly people active in the hospitality industry participated. The service sector is very important for the Dutch economy and we have extensive expertise in this sector. The participants in this trade mission were highly satisfied with their first meetings here. Another trade mission is scheduled for this autumn. I think if we put our efforts together, the Euro 2012 championship will be a great success.
KW: Why did the Netherlands decide to withdraw from Afghanistan, as the mission is not over yet? And what was the point of going in?
P.J.W.: The basic reason for entering Afghanistan is, I think, a strong feeling of international solidarity that The Netherlands traditionally has. That was also evident this time. We have a long tradition of participation in peacekeeping missions and we are certainly not shying away from those that are in, what is called, the higher violence echelon. However, this operation in Afghanistan was certainly not meant to be a combat mission exclusively. Of course, the military aspect of fighting terrorism was important, but most certainly considerations of assisting in the reconstruction of a society so that it would be able to develop into a more prosperous and democratic state were equally important. When we went to Afghanistan, we made a decision to stay there for a certain number of years, and then the day came we had to discuss what’s next. Some political parties said they would be in favour of continuing the mission because the important job was not yet finished, while other parties that were in the ruling coalition until recently were against extending our military presence in Afghanistan once more.
KW: Switzerland raised a big stink by holding a referendum on the construction of minarets. There is also a considerable Muslim minority in the Netherlands. Are there any initiatives to hold a similar referendum?
P.J.W.: Not that I am aware of. As you correctly said, the Muslim community in the Netherlands is quite large, but I would say it is also relatively well integrated. Of course, there are occasional irritations here and there and we even had some violent attacks, but the position of the Muslim communities, particularly in the larger cities where they are in fact concentrated, is well organized. We do not make any difference in the way we treat Mosques and Muslim schools as compared to Catholic or Protestant churches and schools. All this is based on articles in the Constitution, which embody a very long-standing tradition of tolerance with a strict separation between Church and State.
KW: What lies in the future for Ukraine?
P.J.W.: When it comes to Ukraine, I would really like to see this country develop into a prosperous nation that is democratic and based on the rule of law. This requires both stability and reforms, contradictory as this may seem at first glance. Stability is a very important element. In particular, the business community values predictability for purposes of investment planning. But also reforms are critical: without reforms, the situation will not be sustainable in the long-term. Reforms of the administration, including the legal system, and the economy are urgently required. This is confirmed in many reports written by national think tanks and international organisations, including the EU. I would wish that all layers of the society in Ukraine, from the president and the government at the top down to the ordinary civil servant, farmer or factory worker, do realize the importance of the well-being of their country as a whole, and that they would work constructively together to promote this well-being, thereby allowing Ukraine to fully deploy and develop the huge potential it has in so many respects.
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