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| Photo: AP |
Mr. Berezovsky, you are alleged to be the organizer of the scandal in which certain high-ranking government officials in Ukraine are suspected of pedophilia. Artem Dehtyarev, the current civil husband of Yelena Polyukohovych, whose children suffered, heads the Ukrainian branch of the International Civil Freedoms Foundation, which is financed by you. Were you aware of what happened?
B. B. I am aware of the problem as Artem heads my foundation and he spoke with me about this matter three or four months back. Unfortunately, I did not stick my nose into the matter at the time. Now I am closely following this matter and am abreast of the situation. What behooves me is that some high-ranking politicians are defending individuals suspected of committing grave crimes. This I do not understand. Why are the authorities not trying to find out the truth? All the more, specific members of parliament are being named. I get the impression that everybody in Ukraine could care less about these unfortunate children or even their own.
Can you tell us what the essence of your conflict with Yulia Tymoshenko is?
B. B. have no conflict with Tymoshenko. This is a drummed up story.
You recently said that you do not communicate with her.
B. B. That’s right, I do not. But that doesn’t mean that we are in conflict with one another. I simply have nothing to discuss with her. And, apparently, she has nothing to discuss with me. That’s the story in a nutshell. Where is there any conflict?
You said you financed the Orange Revolution. Please tell us how the leaders of the revolution that came to power paid you back?
B. B. They settled accounts in the best way possible. After all, they accomplished the Orange Revolution, which was precisely my goal. I do not regret that I financially supported institutions of civil society because they made the main event happen with my money. Ukrain in essence became an independent country and stopped being a vassal of Russia.
How much did you invest?
B. B. Around US $50 million.
You actively communicated with orange leaders, gave them money and then cut off support. This can only raise questions…
B. B. I severed communication for a number of reasons. The powers of democracy turned out to be inconsistent. They did not fulfill their fundamental pledges they gave to the people. They did not uncover crimes committed by the previous regime, specifically the Gongadze affair and others. They also did not investigate into the crime against the Ukrainian people – namely, the falsification of elections, which is considered a crime by the higher judicial authorities of Ukraine. Nevertheless, those that committed this crime and deceived the people, they to this day are free and running in the elections. I am referring to Mr. Yanukovych and his team.
The poisoning of presidential candidate Yushchenko was also not investigated to the end. This is also a crime against the Ukrainian people.
I am not talking about the land of milk and honey that the people have never seen. There were objective reasons for this. At the same time, we know that Ukraine’s economy was growing in leaps and bounds before the crisis hit. The main thing is that the democrats that came to power turned out to be inflexible. It turned out they did not have the will to fight for democracy and the independence of Ukraine. As Goethe once said, “Only he who fights for happiness and freedom every day is worthy of it”. They do not fight against the scumbags that multiplied like rabbits during the Soviet era and essentially destroyed the Ukrainian nation among others. On this point I agree with Yushchenko. They wanted people to forget about Ukrainian culture and wanted to nullify the uniqueness of Ukrainian nation. I wholeheartedly agree with Yushchenko’s ideology here with no exceptions. The fact that he does not have the moral or physical strength to bring his ideology to fruition is another matter altogether.
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| Photo: AP |
You mean his poisoning?
B. B. Yes. In this case the Kremlin partially achieved its goals (though I am somewhat doubtful that the Kremlin was behind it). They truly undermined the president’s health and possibly broke down him psychologically.
You have preferences when it comes to Ukrainian politicians, particularly those that have a chance of becoming president.
B. B. I do have a preference – it is Viktor Yushchenko.
Do you back him, for example, financially?
B. B. I am getting a sneaky suspicion that you work for the Russian security service. If I were to support him financially, this would be against Ukrainian law. You don’t actually believe that I am completely ignorant about Ukrainian legislation. Hence, your question is completely out of line. In the case of the Orange Revolution I always stressed that I support institutions of civil society, not a revolution. Of course, I support Yushchenko morally.
Do you financially participate in political processes in Ukraine today?
B. B. I do not in any way participate as I feel everything that’s possible has transpired. And no matter what efforts are made to put Yanukovych in the presidential office, I feel he has no chances of returning to the political arena as the country’s leader.
So, who does have a chance?
B. B. Today, many people have the impression that Yulia Tymoshenko has good chances. But the candidate who shares the views of Viktor Yushchenko will win. It will be either Yushchenko himself or a person that shares his outlook.
In your opinion, will events unfold after the elections? What can be expected, first and foremost in relations with Russia?
B. B. I believe that under a new president or with the re-election of Viktor Yushchenko, Ukraine’s vector of development will remain unchanged. As for Russia, as long as the current regime is in power nothing good will come of relations with it, just as there is nothing amicable in the relations between a barbarian and a civilized human being. Until Russia remains on the fringes of civilization with the outlook on the world of a Neanderthal, relations between Ukraine and Russia will remain antagonistic. Russia will always try to aggressively (and I emphasize!) subordinate Ukraine to its every whim and interest.
In what direction might this go and in what form could it manifest itself?
B. B. There are only three forms – political, economic and military. As such, the fourth form – intellectual – can be ruled out. Russia never over its entire history dominated the world in the intellectual sphere, though it was moving in that direction in the 19th and 20th centuries. In this sphere you can’t think up something new. It is quite clear that these three forms are interrelated.
After Russia showed that it is absolutely inadequate and the west, on the other hand, demonstrated its impotency after the events in Georgia, I do not rule out any possibilities, including direct military aggression of Russia against Ukraine. Russia gained positive experience in Georgia when it conquered a part of Georgian territory and declared it independent. Meanwhile, the world remained silent. It’s not important that the independence of Abkhazia and North Ossetia is not recognized. The essence is the world did not oppose this, though the west had all the possibilities of preventing aggression. Such unpunished behavior cannot help but stir up the pot and arouse euphoria. If things continue this way, Russia will try to seize Sevastopol and Crimea by military force if not by political or economic methods.
You are in disgrace, but still you are a Russian oligarch, well oriented in Russian politics. Do you not foresee any other scenarios? What if Yushchenko is not elected president? Realistically speaking, what concrete steps can we expect on the part of Russia during the elections?
B. B. Russia is not conducting itself in the current elections in Ukraine as it did earlier. It twice took a punch in the nose. Yushchenko made an appearance during the parade together with Kuchma and Yanukovych thinking that if he supports one of them that this would elicit the support of the Ukrainian people. As it turned out, everything was exactly the opposite – the more Yushchenko supported Yanukovych, the less the people supported him. This mistake was taken into account. This is why today more refined methods of influence are being applied. Although there is no direct pressure, there are serious financial resources through Russian companies that strengthened their positions on the Ukrainian market. It is through them that financing is provided.
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What companies are you referring to?
B. B. I mean major Russian companies. I will not name them now, but am prepared to do so in due time and even provide figures.
Then comes the pressure, namely through the West, where the idea that Ukraine is an unreliable transporter of gas is being propagated and the totally preposterous idea of construction of the Northern Flow and Southern flow pipelines is being lobbied. As an example, the former German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder is lobbying this idea. Today we see the support of former and current leaders of European countries such as Sarkozy and Merkel, who as you may recall earlier held a different point of view. Finland is also lobbying in the Baltic countries the construction of that senseless pipeline. By the way, I am firmly convinced that it will not be built as it contradicts common sense from the economic, environmental and security vantage point.
Today there are discussions of whether Sevastopol is a Ukrainian city or not.
B. B. This is an example of several fronts of war launched by Russia against Ukraine. Naturally, the battle is for its candidate in the elections.
Meaning for Yanukovych?
B. B. Yanukovych is the optimal variant. But the Kremlin can also cut a deal with Tymoshenko.
Little is known about your presence in Ukraine. Despite this, you are constantly accused of organizing different political scandals…
B. B. The reasons for this are clear. To this day the special forces of Russia have a very strong influence in Ukraine. They have well developed methods. They write off any of their failures on somebody else. Naturally, I am the best target there is because I’m a sitting duck. I am not a dodger and do not hide as most of the others do without exception, including those that have emigrated and call declare themselves political refugees.
In Russia many have figured out who is “Berezovsky – the enemy of the state”. I am not an enemy of the state. I am an enemy of Putin and the current president, who is on Putin’s leash. I am an enemy of the country’s political regime that they sanction. And this is precisely why I consider them enemies of the state…
Russia is crumbling mainly thanks to these individuals. In Ukraine people know much less about me than in Russia. The intelligentsia in Russia figured out who the enemy of the state is. Unfortunately, Ukraine is behind the realistic timescale of events. This is why when the aforementioned scandal flared up and Dehtyarov ended up in the midst of it by accident, I have not doubt whatsoever that my name will be used. This is convenient for those that are hiding from the truth. I believe these people will be punished. I am optimistic that the people Pukach pointed fingers at will also be punished. And we know who these people are: Kuchma, Lytvyn and a number of others. They will be punished one way or another. I have no doubt about it.
How do you know what evidence General Oleksiy Pukach, who was arrested for complicity in the Gongadze affair, gave in the prosecutor general’s office?
B. B. I read about this in your press. There are journalists that I trust and I get information directly from Ukraine.
According to some sources, you own shares in Ukrainian mineral waters – 100% in Borjomi, 50% in Myrhorodska, 20% in Morshynska and all trademarks associated with geographical names. What other assets to you have in Ukraine? Do you have plans of participating in the privatization of Ukrtelecom when the tender is announced?
B. B. I have for long not commented on my business for one simple reason: it is being traced all over the world by the Russian special services, mainly the FSS. This is why I do not reveal where my businesses are and what they are engaged in. No comment.
The fact that certain Ukrainian publications confirm that Yulia Tymoshenko did not take into account your business interests and gave you the cold shoulder raises questions…
B. B. I can say right away to cut short this discussion that I have no claims against Yulia Tymoshenko as premier concerning any actions towards me. This is all connected to the actions of those people that wanted to drive a wedge between Yushchenko and Tymoshenko. Unfortunately, they achieved their goal.
Your visit to Ukraine was much anticipated after the Orange Revolution, but you never made it. Do have any such plans in the foreseeable future?
B. B. You know that my travels around the world are limited by the Russian prosecutor’s office. In order for me to come to Ukraine I need a guarantee from the Ukrainian authorities that I will not be put on a plane or in a car to Moscow. I have never been given such guarantees, though I must admit they never promised me this either. For this reason, my visit will be possible only if the government of Ukraine has enough will power to stand up to Putin and Medvedev. The authorities of Great Britain have such will. They are not ashamed and granted me political asylum. Unfortunately, it will take many years or even generations before Ukraine has such leaders that have freewill and an understanding of their responsibility as they do in Great Britain.
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